Following is Sister Kateri Koverman’s credentials as detailed from her company’s web site Them Bones Veteran Community http://thembonesveteran.org/aboutsr.htm
Sister Kateri Koverman holds a Master’s degree in Social Work, is a Licensed Independent Social Worker (LISW), and a Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor (ICDC) in the State of Ohio. Holds a Masters degree in Pastoral Ministry. Other training includes: Certified as a teacher in the Oral Tradition of the Enneagram; Trauma Incident Reduction (TIR); Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT);Spiritual direction. Worked during times of war in: Vietnam - 3 ½ years (1970, 1973 - 1975) Assisted in the coordination of the orphan airlift; for Catholic Relief Services before the fall of Saigon in April 1975; Ethiopia - 1 year; El Salvador - 2 ½ years; Was a consultant with refugees and persons traumatized by war/conflict for periods ranging from six weeks to a year in: Sierra Leone; Thailand; Zambia; Armenia. Taught part-time for 15 years at the College of Mount St. Joseph in the Departments of Social Work and Theology. Made return trips to Vietnam accompanying Vietnam veterans in 1992 and 2001. Co-founded Joseph House, a residential treatment facility for homeless veterans in Cincinnati. Was clinical director from 1993 to 2000. Established Them Bones Veteran Community in 2001. Has run trauma groups for veteran inmates in local jails for three years. Has been an individual and group psychotherapist with combat veterans for 12 years.Here are Sister Koverman’s words and responses to my questions with as little editing on my part as possible:
There is a saying that I came across when I was in Vietnam when I was in the war. There is no author; it is an Aboriginal saying; it is one that I have used in my professional ministerial life and it goes like this:
“If you have come to help me you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine then let us work together.”
Sister Koverman continues: When I read something of yours (CHAT blog reference) that said you are interested in the whole veteran issue for your own personal reasons, I wasn’t sure what that personal interest was but that is what made me think. You know veterans can pick that up. If somebody comes at them with a sense of I know what you need, there is a resistance there. But, if there is a genuine humble sense of – “I am not a veteran but I want to share that which I have on your journey with you and learn from you as we go” that it is a mutual walk and not somebody handing down something.
Dory – Comments: I relayed to Sister Koverman I was married to a Vietnam veteran, I was so young and immature during that marriage and had no ability to understand what he went through or what he continued to go through including symptoms of PTSD. I loved the man a great deal; however, our marriage broke up. I had no resources or understanding of PTSD – nor did he to understand what he was going through. It is in his honor (in part) that I am on this quest to assist veterans/warriors/soldiers in need.
Additionally, I had a handicapped sister who I helped take care of from the time I was five years old. I believe living with her gave me special insight,an elevated level of compassion and empathy for the handicapped community.
It IS a co-journey I wish to share. Dory Switzer
Sister Koverman continues: Dory – that is the story of so many women who were married to Vietnam veterans. In the 1970’s PTSD was only named as a disorder in 1980. All that time people were just guessing trying to figure out how to address these men who had problems. And the problem was getting in the way of the country. Rather than saying “we caused the problem and we need to come up with an understanding of it.”
Have you seen the Frontline 90-minute presentation which would have been done about a year ago in May 2010. It is profoundly important if you haven’t viewed it - view the “Wounded Platoon.” It has a number of brief sections of interviews with Veteran’s Administration (VA), with military, the Department of Defense, all authorities on the whole question of returning soldiers and why so many got in trouble. There are two guys especially who it follows who are in prison right now. I worked with them. I used to come out there once a month to our office out there but I had to stop as I had a stroke in September. When I was out there in Colorado Springs, I worked in the jail. I worked with both of these guys referenced in the Wounded Platoon. I was very pleased with what Frontline did with that presentation. The link for viewing that 2 hour video is http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/woundedplatoon/
You may view the Wounded Platoon on PBS Frontline to get more details about the circumstances surrounding PTSD among this platoon and the imprisonment of these two Wounded Warriors/soldiers.
You may view the Wounded Platoon on PBS Frontline to get more details about the circumstances surrounding PTSD among this platoon and the imprisonment of these two Wounded Warriors/soldiers.
Question: Can you describe the community of Colorado Springs specifically as it pertains to the military and the church community? The military are very careful about what they share and how they posture the information they dispense.
Response: They hardly make a move unless it’s been approved by the next in command. I know through the years the previous Fort Carson general had lost two sons in the military. I can’t recall his name. (General Mark Graham). Things were very different under his administration then they are currently. His one son was killed in Iraq and the other son was in officer’s training and he hung himself. That husband and wife have incredible compassion in understanding the struggles of soldiers as well as family members. With that compassion he ran Fort Carson very differently than the general now. His wife was very active on base with the family members. She knew from the death of her one son on active duty and what they had no suspicions whatsoever of - was the deep, deep depression of the second son who killed himself. Whoever the commander is, that will set the posture for the entire base.
Question: In reaching the younger soldiers (referenced as the Xbox generation) – what are the challenges in reaching that group? This younger group has not identified who they are spiritually so when they go into combat they have no spiritual anchor. Can you speak to that?
Response: That is true. The youth and the age of the young soldiers is not that terribly different than the ages of the Vietnam soldiers who went right out of high school. They were the ones who came back most wounded both morally and ethically. William Nash, Navy psychiatrist (veteran in three war zones) began to see from 2006 – 2008 a high percentage of Marines and Navy who were being dishonorably discharged. This is one thing we know now that we didn't know in the days of Vietnam. Our current young men and women coming in are not that terribly different.
Do you know what a dishonorable discharge is? The constraints of that whole piece is that you get no VA benefits. This means none of your physical or mental health needs having been exacerbated in the military – entitle you to no benefits (with that comes great dishonor).
Do you know what a dishonorable discharge is? The constraints of that whole piece is that you get no VA benefits. This means none of your physical or mental health needs having been exacerbated in the military – entitle you to no benefits (with that comes great dishonor).
Nash (Wounded Platoon reference) was saying we have got to figure out what we are doing wrong. It is not that these young kids are wrong – it’s something that we are missing. Over a period of time he took a real risk to reach out to an do an overview of 1,000 maybe 1,200 who were given dishonorable discharges. He looked at their records from the time they came into boot camp to their first or second deployments to when it was when they were thrown out of the military. What they found was that the high rate of what they then started calling “Combat Operational Stress Injury.” It is the Navy and the Marines that came up with that concept. Fort Carson in late 2009 and 2010 began to buy into that way of addressing the injuries.
At first, they had three injuries calling them “COSI ’s – Combat Operational Stress Injuries.” They called them stress injuries instead of stress disorders because of the stigma attached to disorders. Are you aware of the stigma literature? The stigma around anybody who admits to any mental issues (mental emotional issues). This is the stigma that young men as well as older National Guard or Reserve guys and gals. This stigman has been in the military culture for such a long time – if you have anything other than a physical injury then that shows you are weak. It is your fault. Physical wounds (unless you shoot yourself) are not your fault. Emotional – psychological wounds – the stigmatizing belief is it is something that you brought on yourself. In order to try to turn that around Secretary of Defense Gates has done an incredible job of trying to change that stigmatized culture within the military.
There are different kinds of non-physical injuries the Navy and the Marines initially came up with over a period of about three years. They came up with about four of them. The original ones were:
Trauma – which we understand – otherwise known as PTSD;
The second one is Fatigue Injury – at first when they came out with that people would say fatigue is part of the military (it comes with war) but we know biochemically what happens when they (soldiers) become to fatigued - the push in the last 18 – 20 months has been to move away from deployments that are one right on top of the other with less than a two year time in between because the body is so fatigued that it cannot rejuvenate and especially the brain. When Bush came up with the 15 month tours instead of the 12 or 9 month tours it caused a higher reporting of fatigue. Neurologists and all kinds of physicians could then track fatigue effectively and definitively say “it’s ruining the health of the young people.”
The third one is called Loss Injuries – People would make fun of that saying ”Losing your buddies or your buddies losing their limbs or their sight or their jaw or whatever – that is all part of war.” Well it is but it psychologically takes a great toll. We know what grief does. In the past commanding officers would say “just get over it. The guy is gone he entered the military this is an all volunteer army don’t be sad.” You can’t tell somebody not to be sad. It is a process you have to go through.
The last one is the most controversial. This one is of such high impact especially on the young. It is called “Belief or Moral Injury.” It only finally was named and tracked it starting with those who served in Abu Ghraib. This is the prison in Iraq where all of the abuse of the prisoners took place by the American soldiers. These events and what was taking place in Guantanamo involved the humiliation of not respecting the culture of those young men, women and older prisoners. These soldiers see what their conscience knows is right and knows what is wrong and yet they are told to go against what is right in terms of carrying out orders. There is a great deal more literature on that kind of injury occurring within the last fifteen months to two years. This is one type of mental injury that most psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers and therapists know the least on how to deal with.
The interview that I read about on your CHAT blog where Grove Higgins talks about treating the whole person (body, mind and the spirit) is a great holistic approach. That approach is the one that if psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers therapists understood in these four (4) “Combat Operational Stress” injuries would be most comprehensive. The current paradigm or understanding as they look at combat injuries is TBI or PTSD or physical wounds. They just don’t understand these other type injuries I just named. There is the old saying that you can’t give to somebody else what you don’t have. If you don’t have an integrated belief system yourself of healing in holistic way (of body, mind and spirit) for your own life journey – you are not going to walk on water and try to help somebody else to address their injuries in this holistic way. You just don’t know the language.
Question: Can you address the unique issues of female soldiers/veterans? The religious support community (Colorado Springs) seem to not be recognizing the female combat soldier and their needs.
Response: There is such a huge need in that area. There is less understanding on how to do outreach. I haven’t had a great deal of experience with military females. I do some programming with the Kentucky National Guard and Advocate Generals the last two of which have allowed me to work with the men and then work with the women in terms of reintegration kind of programming. The reality is the women have special needs but nobody wants to really say that; because, as soon as you state that, the question then becomes if they’ve got special needs then we shouldn’t be taking them in.
So many corporations are demanding their people study and be sensitive to the whole question of diversity, sensitivity and respect. Similarly, the same concept would seem beneficial for everybody’s sake in addressing female veteran/active soldier’s duty needs. This approach would represent justice and something we have just got to do.
Many women I have come into contact, especially those women who are in the jail, too many came home, started getting in trouble, nobody really addressed the trouble, then the trouble got worse and they end up doing life sentences. This is something that unless you can stop that early spiral it can happen so easily. I do a lot of work with female veterans in the jail and I am trying to prevent this repeating pattern as it occurred with returning soldiers/veterans of Vietnam.
Women, I find, will not even admit that they are veterans because there is a lot of negative connotations connected with female veterans. Much of it has to do with the perception that they are whores and they went in the military for a good time. There are many misbeliefs that are so unfortunate – especially of those women who are of the lower to middle class and who sometimes don’t have a strong sense of themselves. One thing they don’t want to let people know is where they tried to find a job in the military.
There is a key thing I don’t think much is written on is in regards to the all-volunteer army (military). Once we moved to an all-volunteer army, men by themselves (absolutely) were not filling in all the need. If it weren’t for the women soldiers our country’s defense system would not be able to meet its needs. This is something people don’t like to talk about. The thinking is “well – we can do without the women.” No, you can’t. If you look at who they are and where they are in the military, the unique roles woman are playing and often times these roles require a great deal of specialty – you can’t replace those specialty functions with just anybody. Our administrations, all of our major departments and uniformed services must come to admit they can’t exist without women recruits (unless something totally changes). Once they admit to this then they have got to say “how are we going to take care of the needs.” I guess we call that sociologically a cultural lag. The lag between reality and what has not (in literature and in practice) caught up with the reality. Who falls in the cracks are the very people we are talking about – the women.
Dory – Comments: The military in Colorado Springs are seeking out the religious support community to provide support services to soldiers and their families. This I am sure as a result of budget and possibly program cuts and most probably diminishing services supporting the soldiers and their family. It isn’t to say these programs aren’t very good or expansive in their dimension and coverage.
Response: There are a lot of shady hard questions which once you are dealing with soldiers you have to face. Sometimes in the spiritual community there are those who are too simplistic in their religious beliefs (a community’s way of trying to make sense out of things). What I am trying to figure out is why people handle things the way they do or the way they don’t. It is almost like they don’t. They want to do something but to really walk deep into the water of addressing life on life’s terms of our present military –is very demanding. Many of the people in the churches are just baffled by the truth of what has gone on with the guys and gals coming back and their deep moral questions. Unless they are very humble or unless they are truly holy holistic people, they think they have to know all the answers And, if they don’t know the answers they prefer not to address the issues. It is very complicated – very complicated.
Dory’s Comment: Dr. Chris Phillips in a workshop for The Bridges to Healing program presented on PTSD and TBI. He emphasized the difference for the need for churches to provide support NOT treatment. Further, stating they can get treatment professionally but what the military and their families need from the faith community is support.
Response: That is why I started out with that Aboriginal quote:
“If you have come to help me you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine then let us work together.”
It is so central. In recovery, healing veterans/soldiers do not need treatment by everybody who touches them. What they need is that mutuality of walking through the healing process. It is the relational piece that feeds the soul much more realistically sometimes better than, the quote, professional treatment.
Question: What is the capacity or ability for previous generation soldiers to assist or provide support to the current generation soldiers? I would use the example of Vietnam Veterans providing support to the Iraq/Afghanistan generation of soldiers.
Response: That is a very touchy question. In the groups I had at the jail and the groups that come here to our agency - we sometimes have them mixed up. Frequently, they are era specific. I do programs for National Guard in different parts of the country. I did a lot of those programs out in Montana. There are very few programs for veterans out there who are recently returned from deployment. What they set up for me was to bring in from 300 to 400 miles away, guys and gals who are recently back or people who want to come to understand a little bit more about PTSD. At this one meeting we only had about 13 to 14 folks. Two of them were Vietnam veterans. The others were all OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom) and OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom/War in Afghanistan) guys or gals. One of the Vietnam veterans was so raw at his lack of integration of his own PTSD that we almost had a brawl between his anger and how much attention the recently returned veterans have gotten compared to the maltreatment the Vietnam veterans received. I was praying to God we would get through the session without somebody getting their head punched. The reason I say that to you is because after that I became much more careful. To match up these two generations of soldiers where there was great difference between how the civilian community received them once back home – well that is critical. If you take the Vietnam veterans the whole country was in a difference place in terms of how they looked at the war and how they looked at people who served in that war. Those guys came back - many with chips on their shoulders. If Vietnam era veterans haven’t worked through their issues, to put them in any way with a younger generation soldier/veteran either from the Persian Gulf or recent wars – you are asking for trouble. For some people they have got it under control. The younger veteran does NOT need that guilt trip. If you were to look at that as a possible way of supporting soldiers – I think it is possible. I do a little of that myself. But, I very carefully have to know who the Vietnam veteran is to know where they are at on their journey and if can they do the walking with younger generation soldier without laying a trip on them. It takes some real knowing to know who your volunteers might be.
Additionally, I would strongly, strongly, strongly keep the sexes separate in any transitional housing. It is the power play piece which concerns me. Housing is about home. Home brings about that which is familiar with most guys and in most situations where the male was dominant. If they are in a housing situation whether temporary or in transition, to mix them up - you are asking for problems. I have been working with people where their emotions are pretty raw.
I will keep your efforts in my prayers…. End of Interview
Thank you Sister Koverman!!